AngiePen ([info]angiepen) wrote,
@ 2007-07-29 17:04:00
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Entry tags:fanfic babbling

An Official Assumption
OK, at this point I'm just officially assuming that any writer of multi-part stories who hasn't done something to make it easy for other people to nominate said multi-part stories for awards doesn't want their stories nominated. Specifically, if the stories aren't linked such that you can hand someone the URL to Chapter One and have them be able to click links straight through to the end, AND if there's no index page specifically for that one story with all the chapters linked to it, AND if there's no category in that person's Memories which has all the chapters and only the chapters to that particular story in it, AND if there's no tag which displays all the chapters and only the chapters to that particular story... in other words, if there's no single URL from which an eager reader can read the entire story without having to go on a scavenger hunt, then forget it, I give up.

This goes for recs too, BTW. I'm much less likely to rec a story if I have to feed the person chapter URLs individually, or talk them through some trick using a combination of links and tags and whatever all else because no one method works consistently for the whole thing. (I've done the latter for one (1) story, because it's good and hot and funny and that's a rare combination, but it's not something to count on.)

I'm just really frustrated right now because there are some great stories which I'd love to nominate but the writer(s) couldn't be bothered to make it easy for readers to find all the pieces. So whatever.

ETA: Add to the list of Stories Not Getting Nominated all fics where the header is posted to a fic community but the link goes to the top of the writer's journal. [headdesk] No, I'm not going hunting for it. I'm just not. [/ETA]

Angie (Why yes, I'm doing my MOME nominations, how can you tell? [headdesk])


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[info]galor5
2007-07-30 12:34 am UTC (link)
I feel your pain! I've been working this weekend putting nominations together and have struggled a bit on some stories. Fortunately, a majority of the authors I've found have used the tags or have a links page for the story. That helps a great deal.

I'm stuggling with word counts. I don't know how many I put 8,000+ words (I think) lol On some that weren't as long I copied and pasted into my Word Doc and did a quick word count. :-\

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[info]angiepen
2007-07-30 12:40 am UTC (link)
[leans on you in sympathy]

Yes, most writers are cool about it and a lot of the ones who aren't I don't care [cough] but it hurts to have this really cool fic that's scattered all to hell and gone. [more headdesking] It's just not worth messing with, though, especially when you still have a bazillion fics to sort through. :/

And GMTA -- I have a Word document open for just that reason, paste and word count. :)

Angie

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[info]snakeling
2007-07-31 07:28 pm UTC (link)
I'm going to put a big fat word to the OP, but the reason I'm really commenting is to rec the Word Count extension for Firefox. Highlight the text you want counted, right-click, and there's Word Count in the contextual menu. Way quicker :)

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[info]angiepen
2007-08-01 04:46 am UTC (link)
Thanks for the link. :) I downloaded that and will give it a shot. Too late for my nominations [laugh/flail] but it'll help for next time.

Angie

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[info]willys_digs
2007-07-30 12:45 am UTC (link)
I sympathize. I've seen many nasty examples of this, so I've actually tried to "memorie" them myself. It's a hell of a lot of work but if I eventually fic rec like I want to in the future, I have to. Seems silly, but I love the fics enough to do it I guess.

hugs

Jo

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[info]angiepen
2007-07-30 12:51 am UTC (link)
I love the fics but under these circumstances I'm a bit ticked off at the writers. It's not difficult to pick one method of linking everything up and use it, and some random reader shouldn't have to do it just because a writer got lazy. Seriously, if they can't do one thing -- even just tags or memories, pick something -- to make it easy for readers to read the darned story then IMO they don't deserve an award. [shrug]

Angie, who's still annoyed

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[info]amygirl
2007-07-30 02:23 am UTC (link)
Ugh don't get me started on people who don't use tags and/or memories. This is a bitch when it comes to adding stuff to The Project. It's bad enough when it's a LJ where it takes people two seconds to pop a tag at the end of it (I've taken to doing my own memories) but it's really irritating when it's off-journal and there's nothing I can do to fix it.

It's about making things easier for your readers why don't people get that? Guh.

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[info]angiepen
2007-07-30 02:30 am UTC (link)
Exactly. [nodnod] If you post in public it's because you want to be read, right? So why make it difficult for people to do what you want? [sigh]

I prefer an index, and links between posts so you can just start at the beginning and click straight through, but just about anything is at least adequate, including memories which I hate -- they're still better than being expected to go hunting through someone's calendar pages, or worse, some busy fic community's calendar pages. :/ I'm convinced people just don't think about this, because if I thought they were aware but still couldn't be bothered I'd be severely tempted to just stop reading anything they post.

Angie, who's only not in a worse mood 'cause she's been reading some great fics

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[info]amygirl
2007-07-30 02:37 am UTC (link)
Memories are a pain in the butt. I'm anal so I want them to be listed in the right order and all. I just use them on The Project with a direct link to them. On my own site I have the full listing with links to all the chapters and then use tags because I'm too lazy to go back and include links to the next chapters in a previous chapter. I try to remember to link to the the Previous chapters but it's usually just a link to the tag.

I prefer tags because I like to click back to one page and then choose the next chapter instead of clicking through to the next chpater but I'm strange... :-)

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[info]angiepen
2007-07-30 01:52 pm UTC (link)
I'm anal so I want them to be listed in the right order and all.

Yep, that's me too. [nodnod] I've hit memories where each chapter is memoried completely individually, so you have to dig through everything the person has ever memoried to find each chapter, memories where the chapters are gathered under a larger title header but put in in the wrong order (and the fact that this is unfixable is one reason I don't memory my fiction, grrr!), memories where the chapters are under a title but out of order and with some duplicated and others missing, memories where the chapters are under a title but each chapter is in its own "folder" for some reason, so from the title list you still have to click twice to get to the actual chapter.... [headdesk] I really hate memories. :/

use tags because I'm too lazy to go back and include links to the next chapters in a previous chapter.

That's not my favorite way of doing it but it works. I have everything linked and tagged and multi-chapter pieces get their own index page, so however a reader wants to do it, there it is. I don't use memories 'cause they suck as discussed above, but there's a link to my fiction index in memories so someone who looks in memories will find it. And it's also linked from my profile page for people who look there.

I prefer tags because I like to click back to one page and then choose the next chapter instead of clicking through to the next chpater but I'm strange... :-)

That works. And an index page will let you do that as well as memories or tags. [nod]

But the whole point is that I want people to read my stories and if they can't find them, or can't find all the pieces in the right order on a multi-part, I lose as much as they do. I want to be read so I make it as easy as possible for my readers, and if that means I have to take the extra thirty-two seconds to link from Chapter Seven up to the new Chapter Eight, I'll do it happily. And I've had plenty of people come along in mid-post, or after I've finished posting, who've read right through from the beginning and that makes it worth it. I don't necessarily expect everyone to do it the way I do it, but I do expect everyone to do something and it's the writers who don't do anything who get me all frustrated and annoyed. :P

Angie

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[info]kitty_trio
2007-07-30 02:52 am UTC (link)
*huggles* This was me last week, when I had a rare quiet afternoon/evening to attempt to dig up all the scattered links for a couple fics. One friend, I've now found out, rarely used subject lines *headdesk* so I couldn't use her archives to search for the chapters.

And yes, I had a Word.doc open to copy/paste for word counts *g*

Good luck sweets!! Just know somehow, some way, some wonderful fics will get nominated.

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[info]angiepen
2007-07-30 01:57 pm UTC (link)
One friend, I've now found out, rarely used subject lines

Yeah, that too. :/ I'm going through archives myself, and entries without headers don't get clicked on. Sorry, folks, but I don't have time to hunt through Every Friggin' Entry, and even if I did I wouldn't want to spend it that way.

And yes, a lot of great fics will be nominated. I can only hope that the people whose great fics don't get nominated because an insufficient number of nominators had the time or inclination to go on an Easter egg hunt will get a clue for next year. Or maybe they don't care about being nominated (or recced, as I mentioned above) 'cause not everyone does; that's cool too.

Angie

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[info]liriel1810
2007-07-30 07:49 am UTC (link)
You know, whenever someone makes a post like this, bitching about how difficult some people make it to follow their story, I always worry that it's me. If I have caused you any annoyance, I most humbly apologize. I'm a bit of a technotard. However, since I've had tags explained to me, I do try and tag my stories with the title so that if anyone wants to, they can click on the tag and get the whole thing. I should probably go back and fix entries to stories I posted before I learned about tags, though. I do have a very shiny fic list though, so that's something, yeah?

Lir (trying not to feel too horribly guilty)

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[info]angiepen
2007-07-30 02:00 pm UTC (link)
I haven't gotten to you yet. [leans on you] If you have title tags, though, that should be enough. It's the people who don't give readers any way of finding all their chapters, short of hunting through their archives line-by-line, who have me making forehead-shaped dents in my keyboard. :P

Angie

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[info]liriel1810
2007-07-31 09:16 am UTC (link)
Not all my stories have title tags. I should go and fix that next time I'm bored and don't feel like writing. *makes mental note* It is rather frustrating to come across a story that sounds interesting... but the author is currently posting chapter 9 (or some chapter quite far from the start) and there's no way in hell to know where to go to get the beginning. I usually just sigh sadly and say 'bugger it' when that happens. :D

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[info]angiepen
2007-07-31 03:56 pm UTC (link)
I usually just sigh sadly and say 'bugger it' when that happens. :D

See, that's exactly it. [nod] I do that too, and I imagine a lot of other readers doo too. Which is what makes this so frustrating -- it's not just me or you or any other reader wanting things their own way, but rather it's to the writers' benefit to give their readers some way of going back and reading the stories. You didn't think of that before, but now that you have you're planning to go back and fix your tags, which is perfectly cool.

And yeah, it's always handy to have a list of tasks that kinda-sorta look like work so you have something to do when you don't feel like writing. :D Putting together my nomination list has filled that role handily for the last few days. [laugh/flail]

Angie

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[info]maculategiraffe
2007-07-30 11:43 am UTC (link)
Heh, I need to go through and organize mine once the whole thing is posted. And put it on my own journal, I reckon. *takes notes more*

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[info]angiepen
2007-07-30 02:09 pm UTC (link)
[info]slavefics is a quiet enough journal that it wouldn't be horrifically terrible to have to dig through it for entries, but yeah, that'd probably be a good idea.

Personally, I like having my stories under my own control, just 'cause I'm anal like that. If I post directly to a community and it gets deleted for whatever reason -- whether the mod decided to do a flounce or whether LJ got a hair up its ass or whatever -- then my story is gone, along with any comments posted to it. :( What's in my journal is under my own control and if I do something dumb and get it deleted, that's my own fault and no one else's.

I have a few stories posted directly to communities and I won't do that again except under a fairly restrictive set of circumstances. The other 95% of my stuff gets posted to my journal, then I post links in whatever fic communities. Some people comment on the links but that's pretty rare, so the vast majority of comments end up in one place, in my journal, which makes it easier to be sure I've responded to all of them. Every now and then LJ will decide to lose comment notifications, or to sit on them for several weeks, and I've missed responding promptly to story comments a couple of times; that's always embarassing when I finally notice. [cringe] It usually happens with the stories posted out at other journals, though, because I poke through my own stuff here pretty often.

My first story was posted directly to a story community, though, because I was new to LJ and had no clue how to do links. Heck, just an LJ-cut was like quantum physics, LOL! My first story was just a one-shot, though, so at least I didn't have to mess around with chapters. :)

Angie

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[info]rifleman_s
2007-07-30 12:34 pm UTC (link)
Mmm, I hit the same problem at times, too. I really wanted to nominate some of the stories, but being non-technical myself could only find either the first or last chapter and so - unfortunately and unfairly - had to rely on the moderator to try to find the rest!

I gave as much information as possible and even sometimes a Comm where the story was posted, but I have to agree, it's not easy . . .

Good luck [info]galor5 and helpers - my thoughts are with you!!

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[info]angiepen
2007-07-30 02:18 pm UTC (link)
had to rely on the moderator to try to find the rest!

See, it never occurred to me to do that because I have this mental image of all hundred-and-some-odd people who are watching the MOME community just thinking, "I hope the mods can find the rest..." and the poor mods buried in first and last chapters, trying desperately to find all the links in time to post the ballots. [hugs [info]foxrafer]

I think I'll keep just skipping the stories that aren't linked or tagged or memoried or something. Just in case a bunch of other people did leave it to the mods, I won't add to that. And besides, I'm annoyed enough (even now, after a night's sleep) by this that I have absolutely no problem leaving the randomly scattered stories off of my nomination list. [wry smile]

Angie

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[info]kyuuketsukirui
2007-08-01 03:33 am UTC (link)
Totally agree. And what's worse is that it seems to me it's most often really popular authors who are most likely to do that, so it comes off as some sort of weird BNF thing, like they just expect everyone loves them enough to go to all that effort.

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[info]angiepen
2007-08-01 04:44 am UTC (link)
You mean the very people who should know better? [sigh] It's not really a noticeable problem if I'm reading something a chapter at a time as it's posted and crosses my Flist, but times like now when I'm going back hunting for things, whether it's for a contest or because I'm reccing or just because I want to reread something, it can get pretty frustrating. Unless the story is just absolutely stupendous, I'm not going to bother unless the writer meets me halfway.

And there've been times when I've been away from the computer for a couple of weeks, and I've even been away from my Flist completely for periods of several months. When I come back I like to pick up on multi-part stories I'd been reading, but if it's that difficult to go back and find my place and read the backlog...? Again, I'm not going to bother unless the story was just incredibly amazing, and my Short List has very few writers for whom I'd go hunting through their journal archive, by hand. (And amazingly enough, none of those BNF types pull this kind of crap. Looks like the very best writers (or my very favorites, anyway) have more consideration for their readers than that.)

Angie

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[info]teh_no
2007-08-02 03:38 pm UTC (link)
What I do is, in addition to links the previous and next in the series, is tag the first fic in the series with all the requisite tags (genre, characters, pairing, that sorta thing), then the later fics just have a series-specific tag. It eases up on space and doesn't take that much time to either create or figure out.

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[info]teh_no
2007-08-02 04:14 pm UTC (link)
Of course, I imagine this could present a problem if someone were hunting for the fic on a comm instead of in my personal journal.

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[info]angiepen
2007-08-02 05:26 pm UTC (link)
Right, that's something to think about. Most people read more from coms than they do from personal journals, so it's most convenient if the navigation aids are there in the part of the header that you post to the com. Although if you post to your journal and link to the coms, then someone who comes across Chapter Twelve in a community can click through to your journal and click on the title tag from there; that works fine. It's when I find a Chapter Twelve posted directly to a com, with no navigation aids, that I throw up my hands and move on to the next story.

Angie

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[info]foxrafer
2007-08-06 03:18 am UTC (link)
Yes, yes, a thousand times yes! If you want people to read your stories, make it easy to find all the chapters. Adding a link to either the next or previous chapters in each post takes no time, tagging takes literally less than a minute. Do something. And if you tag, tag all the chapters. And even if you do absolutely nothing else, don't lock some chapters while the rest are unlocked. How does that makes sense? My favorite so far, though, have been the nominations that had a link to the journal and not the fic; and nominating a locked story but not providing the word count, pairing or an e-mail for the author (and then not responding to my e-mail to them asking for the info).

*deep breath* I think I needed that. :-) I could go on but in all honesty even with all the frustrations and aggravations it hasn't been that bad. But I'll be quite happy when the ballots are done.

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[info]angiepen
2007-08-06 04:43 am UTC (link)
Glad I could provide a place for you to vent. [wry smile] And yeah, I imagine it's even more frustrating on your end of it. [cuddles and hands chocolate]

Maybe for next year you could make it plain that incomplete nominations will be discarded? That'd put the burden back on the writers (where it belongs) to make it reasonably easy for readers to find the proper pieces. Because if a reader can't find the info and knows that a nomination with just a journal link or whatever will be tossed, they'd either bug the writer for the info or just shrug and go on to the next story. Or maybe I'm just expecting people to respond the way I would? :P Anyway, you shouldn't have to be running around digging up all this info. :/ Good luck, hon. I hope you have some nice reward planned for yourself for once the ballots are up? :)

Angie

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[info]illuminated_sin
2007-08-07 03:20 am UTC (link)
ARGH! I KNOW!!!!

::glares at inconsiderate authors::

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[info]angiepen
2007-08-07 07:15 am UTC (link)
I didn't nominate any of them. [shrugs and leans on you] Hopefully they'll link things up somehow next year.

Angie

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